Shawna Potter

SHOW NOTES:
In this episode of But Her Lyrics, host Shawna speaks to Caithlin De Marrais, bassist and co-singer and -lyricist for 2nd wave emo band, Rainer Maria. On Thanksgiving morning they dove deep into an early song “Rain Yr Hand,” about how accessing all ages music making spaces is fundamental to our development. Overall themes? Reflection, hindsight, growth, and community.

There will be a Patreon-exclusive bonus clip where they discuss what thanksgiving brings to mind, how the War On Women song "This Stolen Land" applies to it, and more.

Also in this episode: shoutout to Rocketown in Franklin, TN (rip), kids needing a place to go to make good trouble, extreme accessibility, anyone can play music, imposter syndrome or authenticity?, diversity is our survival, the hindsight of a reunion 20 years later, a chance to reflect, confronting our fear, and guess what - emo’s big now!

SHOW LINKS:

https://rainermaria.bandcamp.com/

https://www.instagram.com/rainermariamusic

Skeletal Lightning -- https://skeletallightning.com/

CAITHLIN DE MARRAIS NEW ALBUM, 'LEARNING TO LIVE WITH FIRE', OUT MARCH 2025!

Sounds of Saving (SOS) -- https://www.soundsofsaving.org/

We’re a music and mental health nonprofit that designs and provides tools, content, resources, and curriculum to young people, ages 14 to 24, on how to discover and utilize music to support their mental health and wellness.

Just Accessible Music (JAM) -- https://www.justaccessiblemusic.com/

Making music accessible to people of all ages and abilities. 

Figurenotes -- https://figurenotes.org/

Figurenotes was created at the Resonaari school in Finland by music educators Kaarlo Uusitalo and Markku Kaikkonen. Initially designed to enable those with learning disabilities to play music, it has since developed into a tool to help anybody get started. 

Very intuitive to those with Autism Spectrum Disorder.

But Her Lyrics This Stolen Land episode (mentioned in Patreon-exclusive bonus clip of this interview) https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/this-stolen-land-pt-1-004/id1538652998?i=1000512385785

Kaia’s response to why we use YR instead of YOUR: “Kaia said it was slang we often used in written notes at the time. According to t’internet it originated with the Beat generation (we were definitely reading poetry at the time) and was later repopularized in the indie rock world circa 1980s by Sonic Youth.”

SHAWNA’S LINKS:

shawnapotter.com

Making Spaces Safer: https://www.akpress.org/making-spaces-safer-book.html

https://www.youtube.com/@shawnapotter

https://www.cameo.com/shawnapotterwow

linktr.ee/waronwomen

SHOW SCRIPT:

Welcome to But Her Lyrics...the show where we delve into the political lyrics of songs I like, songs I wrote, or topics that I think should be a song. I’m Shawna Potter, singer and lyricist for War On Women - and your host. I had the absolute pleasure of spending my Thanksgiving morning chatting with bassist and vocalist for Rainer Maria, Caithlin DeMarrais. I saw them play live at Best Friends Forever Fest in Las Vegas in October when I was tagging along and generally bothering Jawbox. And I’m so glad I did, not only was it was a great set, but unless I saw them I don’t know if they would have been on my radar as a band to ask, I wasn’t sure how active they were or if they’d give me the time of day, but not only was Caithlin was super receptive to talking with me, but what you’re about to hear is a really thoughtful reflection on the music accessibility, the importance of music at all stages of life, and really what it’s like to be in Rainer Maria for 25 years and how things have changed or grown, it’s fascinating. I really like this interview. So quickly before we get to it, 

PATREON

Biggest of shoutouts to my Patreon Recruits: Pupcakes and Pawstries, Ronnie Navarro, Nick M, Melissa P, and my Meatheads: Ben, Isaias, Russel W, Byron, Bob VV, Pete, and Stephan K. And thanks to everyone who signed up in November, putting me over the edge, finally giving me over 100 patrons. What an awesome milestone, I’m so appreciative. This holiday season, if you’d like to support me or my work, please consider gifting a Shawna-specific Patreon membership to a friend if you think someone else would be interested in what I do, or upping your monthly membership amount, which you can do at a discount if you buy it annually instead of month to month. So, lots of options, and please know, patrons get to decide: what about my life do you want to see or hear. Message me your requests, and don’t forget about any special benefits your specific membership tier gets. I might owe you a virtual call! And before the end of the year you can at least expect a tour diary from the upcoming WOW dates with Voivod and The Anti-Queens, who are previous podcast guests, so seek that episode out.

OK, sales pitch over. here’s my interview with one of the front people for Rainer Maria, Caithlin DeMarrais, almost in progress.

[interview transcript from youtube, please excuse any errors]

osie who's Rosie to your bone it's my

pit mix puppy and I did the whole like let her outside and and do all the

things so that she would be chill right now and she's just not chill yeah your bone Che your bone I'll show you her at

the end so I don't miss the camera interruptions we do and the anyone that listens to this podcast is familiar with

it so it's fine um Caitlyn de marray hi

sha thank you for joining me on but her lyrics please introduce yourself to everyone thanks sha uh my name is

Caitlyn deay and I have been a longtime member of the second wave Midwest emo

band called Rainer Maria also pronounced Riner Maria we take all

pronunciations and um right now I am also a full-time music educator in

Connecticut public schools wow among other things those are my two main gigs

obviously for sure we're all we all contain multitudes of course every

person has many has many selves now we're here to talk about re your hand um

but before we get into it I assume that rain Maria does not consider itself a

political band but how do you view the relationship the band has with politics

and social justice issues is there one I think there's many and has always been

since its um conception at the beginning because I came into it as um with my

interest in the all ages scene that was had been developed in Madison Wisconsin

all ages Music Space um by Ka and William and some other folks uh called P

is for Punk and we um you know uh we had

a lot of fun that was the name of the space that was the name of the collective the collective okay yeah so

we we found spaces to host shows for

traveling bands um and we made sure that they were safe spaces all ages spaces um

and we had this network of people touring musicians at the time that were coming through and they knew that they

had a place to sleep we would feed them um and we would do a show and sometimes

that show was in our basement um and in fact Ron Maria played our

first show in our own basement um with uh the band with several bands but one

of them was the makeup um DC so we had you know we got to know

these hotots of you know punk rock political folks um in different areas of

the whole country because then when we went on tour they would reciprocate and be like riner's coming through you know

put them on this bill or you know we'll have them at our at this house show so it was like a awesome Network um and we

were very political in a you know in in in a personalist political sense but also in what we were creating as an

alternative to um you know the venues where that were much

more uh you know inaccessible at that time for for lots of different reasons

rain your hand is from your very first album self-titled album came out in

97 right officially the oldest song I to be featured on but her lyrics so far

that's awesome that's so cool um 1997 what do do you remember about writing it

like where were you in your head in space and time when you wrote it um and

then also you know how do you feel about it now and that's that's lyrically that's musically whatever yeah that's an

awesome question thank you well I think I've I put it away for a long time so

coming back to it more recently as an older person I I really appreciate what

it meant at the time when when we were creating it and also

what it means to me now so at the time I was coming from being um a dancer you

know I had I had had some musical training but very little I went to a

Catholic school where there were there was no music program um and um so by the

time I got to college I was like I need everything I need all the the dance and music that I can get so I was a dancer

and I came to you know get to know kai and William they already had a band

called Ezra pound and they that band disbanded and they decided to ask me to

to join them and I had had like I said very little musical training but I was very musical I

absolutely you know wanted to connect with music as a as a musician not not as a not only as a dancer and a listener um

and also I wrote a lot of poetry so I felt that there was a space for me I just had never found my way into it so

and how old were you when you were asked to join about 21 22 so like older as far

as like a musician starting out right in a sense um I don't you know I'd been a

singer I loved singing in in like a church choir or something like that but so Ka was a like the most amazing

encouragement I could possibly want and hope to receive from who you know k's

now my my BFF totally um but back then like really helped me come out of this I

don't know if it was like a fear fear or some kind of shell or just basically as

a music educator now I understand I had never worked that muscle I had never had the opportunity to project my voice to

collaborate with other musicians I was extremely musical but I never had worked that muscle so it was like someone was

putting me on the basketball court for the first time and was like go shoot some hoop

wait hold on I've never you're like dribble but I haven't done anything yeah I love the sport but I don't know how to

access it and play as a team so um yeah so that song we were like let's let's

write about this memory I had in high school um of of being at an all ages

space but it was an all ages Dance Space because like I said I hadn't been able to access being in a band until college

so I I would go to these all ages dance clubs and DIY dance spaces in

Connecticut um and that's where all the queer kids were hanging out and that's where all the artistic kids were hanging out and that's where I felt like my

Kindred folk were there so you know we were dancing dancing dancing um one of the DJs was Mobi actually when

he was a young person oh my goodness so it was like people who were really into music right and um so

anyway I'm telling you a whole bunch about myself I love it because you're actually transporting me back in time

because one of the first hangout spots in my high school years where you could

find all the other alternative kids was a place called Rocket Town in Franklin Tennessee and it was like that that's

where the goth dance party was that's where you went to hear Tainted Love and then sometimes bands would play and then

they'd serve everyone pizza and talk about God after midnight but that's like a different episode I think of this

podcast but anyway not disimilar right right but it's like the dance aspect and then the music and

and and like just a place for kids to like go and be free and like kind of

stay out of trouble but do all the things that we need to do as far as like development and social relationships go

so yeah right totally exactly that and and you know and and um I had I had

started out going to a place called the anthrax which was a hardcore music venue

club and I foolishly went up front

wanting to dance right and I got smashed and I was like this is not my space yeah

like I I like what I I like what's happening but there's no room for me like I'm gonna I'm small and I I'm not

I'm not a um you know I don't MH so um yeah so I was like I got to find a

different space so anyway so then you know this memory of being at one of these spaces

and having um like a one ful experience with my best friend at the time and um

Kyle was like oh that's I love that story you know here we are out in Madison also creating these all ages

spaces and it's so fundamental to our development as human beings like here

here the song has written itself like let's let's have you know you know we we at the early stages of raria it was very

much like um let's see what we can have two different melodic lines going

through it and two different stories and see where they meet um so that's how that song came together fusing the two

the eras of our of our lives at that point now the lyrics are so sweet right

like I said they even listening to the song it transports me back in time um but just I'm right back to crushes

butterflies new relationship energy you know the what is it the a breath of

hesitation lyrics reference my God guts me um so how do

you see that sweet storyline of these two people finding each other and

wondering like oh what's next what are we going to do here um how do you see that tying into all ages spaces and the

necessity of those spaces in having those moments those spaces are so crucial and

essential and we have fundamentally shut them down in so

many parts of our of of our country of our culture here right now um especially

places like where I live out in the a rural Town um there's you know I think

we're better than than some but those spaces have just disappeared and dried up and I don't know what people expect I

don't know what adults what us adults think young people should be doing like they should absolutely be hanging out

making mistakes getting into trouble you know safe trouble good trouble um good trouble yeah good kind of trouble and

especially these kids coming out of the pandemic you know as an educator I'm seeing those kids that were in Middle School holy cow during the pandemic they

have to come to this understanding that it's okay to ask someone to hang out it's oh you

know it's scary um and it really emphasized to me

what providing those spaces for them how crucial it is because to actually be

able to sense someone's uh reaction in real time not by a not with a screen but

in the same room as you to literally as a human being have your senses sparked

by how they're reacting to you when you're asking them questions and um

putting yourself out there vulnerably to say hey you want to hang out you know like that if they've missed that crucial

part of their development it it's hard they they're they're struggling to get it back they're getting it back they're

getting it back thank goodness is what I'm seeing but um they missed it so that

was like a that's a really extreme example of of you know what when we deny

it to them what winds up happening um

but you know I'm creating I'm trying to create those spaces in my classroom now yeah um yeah where tell me about that

well where people are where Young Musicians are able to take those risk s

and see reactions in real time and I always say like yes let's make mistakes together we're all making mistakes this

is a good class to make mistakes and um and they are learning how to speak to

each other and interact with each other in an entirely different context than their social studies class or their math

class um or even their fed class although not dissimilar but um you know

active listening is so it's this like undervalued skill that um

again I feel I can see potentially that we're we haven't flexed that muscle

enough I teach it to adults yeah in my trainings I bet you do oh I would love

to hear more about that I bet you too yeah like how do you find adults are um how do you well my question you would be

yeah we just forget that stuff and we're not taught in school basic active listening skills communic ation skills

that that conflict is a part of communicating and there's kind of a right way or better way to have conflict

and it's not the end of the world and it's not abuse and there are differences and um so just like just real basic

communication human to human stuff should be taught in school uh in my

opinion more than maybe like can you find this random country on a map even

like I'm just like that's something we can look up quickly if we need to know if we forget where

Ghana is right we can look it up oh there it is that's right but like we need to be

practicing interacting with other practicing like from birth um so me

you're you're talking about all these all ages spaces and I'm thinking like the phones don't help so in your

classroom are you are you like a no phones policy kind of teach like so that

they can talk to each other I when I was in high school when I

was teaching some some High School classes uh there there were phones and that was absolutely wrong but it needs

to come from it needs to be like a Statewide thing or a a districtwide

thing like that literally phones are banned from the classroom otherwise the

kids will have them but right now I'm teaching mostly prek through sixth grade so most of them do not even have phones

or if they do their teachers are able to keep them in their class but the kid the

kids still show up sometimes rarely though but I feel so lucky that I get

their undivided attention and I tend to turn my big giant promethium board screen off as much as possible because I

know they've been staring at it all day they've had their own individual devices and I'm like this is as minimal screams

as possible in this classroom um I would love for them to be exposed to other

musicians and other styles and also to see themselves identify themselves so I certainly do show M other performances

and we listen to recordings but my emphasis is on getting them to hear them

their own voice within a group and know they don't have to sing as loud as possible right right right and then also

get the ones that are very quiet to make a sound and it can be and sometimes I'm

leaning in with my you know to just just to hear them the quietest ones but um

and that's great they're that's to me that effort is just as valuable and

worthy of you know quote unquote getting an a as the student who's coming in and

already knows how to harmonize naturally you know and um is is more more engaged

in that sense so making it extremely accessible is also one of my extreme

accessibility I've never actually said that before that's I don't mean to make it sound like an extreme sport but um

yeah I was fortunate to have some wonderful um teachers and um who who

helped me understand what that means yeah what accessibility means in a music classroom did you have to learn that

lesson yourself growing up like to be a piece of the puzzle instead of H you

know I'm just thinking you know as an as a only child and I did theater and I was like everybody look at me and then I had

to realize like actually it's okay if I'm just doing this tiny little noodly thing on the

guitar because it's about how all the pieces fit together versus versus like me being some star and I think anyone

that did band or orchestra was way better like they just you just know that you just learn that and I never did that

I was you know self-taught just guitarist oh hi puppy by the way I know made an appearance on the video made an

appearance I love your theater reference my both of my children have done theater

my daughter's really into theater and sorry and congrats no oh I love it I

love it um the cliche obviously is there's no what's this saying there's no

small part there's only small actor or something there's no role or something yeah absolutely like every I just saw a

show this weekend their B this band's first performance ever and two of them

are visual artists and I didn't know who the other the other musician was but and and they you know obviously they had

their first show Jitters and I came to it again with so much openness and

happiness as a music educator to see how they navigated their mistakes how they

you know what parts were shining what moments like were they like locked in

and and so you know music as this conversation that we're sharing and it's

that is the that at its core is the most crucial element of it that I that I

teach you know like but really we're just practicing that it's this conversation we're having that's so

beautiful I got a question or two from the internet uh about y'all um Matt G

I'm not saying his last name because I don't know if I can pronounce it right but Matt G who is a self-proclaimed raino Maria Super Fan um one he said he

wanted to thank you for buying him Thai food and Milwaukee that one time okay I don't know if you know what that means

or remember that that's awesome um so thank you for that uh but also he asked

what is it like to write music with the same people for over 25 years which is I

feels like a really big question yeah what's it like well I

think you know when we started out we were I would not say amateur I never Ed

that word amateur but like we were beginners you know we were young musicians and now

um as older musicians I think we

have maybe more we're we're definitely calmer I

think at the time for myself I will speak only for myself at the time I was really nervous about my vision my my

third of that you know and like trying to be perfect maybe that's one of my

um selves that I can also put aside and say no it's okay perfect you like the

self that wants to be perfect like it's not going to be number one so you know take a

break like now I feel very happy to um go deeper into for me wanting to show

that authenticity so I think at the when I was younger I felt more frightened to be authentic and now I feel more

comfortable just trying to be that that's so fascinating because I feel like such a big part of your band

especially when it started was this immediate sense of y'all having

authenticity of it being a little raw and being real and that really appealing

to people and so you're telling me that you were trying to almost like shy away from that or hide it at first yeah uh

being raw I think I didn't know what to do I think I was just I could only do

what I knew which because I'd never been I I was learning I was learning writing and learning every song by

ear I couldn't tell you what you know I could barely I knew what my four strings

were but I could barely tell you where notes were on the fretboard so now that I've learned some music theory you know

I went got my Master's music education and I understand the theory and I'm like oh that's cool how that works

together yeah I can understand that a little better now but you know you don't need Theory obviously to write music

because majority of musicians in the world can't read western music theory

anyway so yeah and I think I was afraid that I was inauthentic because I

couldn't tell you how to read a chord chart or whatever like I was like oh that makes me not a real musician oh

that's a different version of authenticity yeah yeah yeah I because

y'all had more of the no we're just real people and we have real feelings and and

and just and also being a three-piece and so it's even more kind of stripped down there's less less jangly guitars in the way you

know yeah um just real wow and you were like oh but am I not real because I'm

not a pro you know and of course Back Then There Were far less people that looked

like me or identified like me at the music spaces at the venues um nowadays

it's like oh wow like Isn't it nice we step into oh it's so nice and

before things like me too movement I really didn't believe it could happen in my lifetime things just felt so

entrenched and I didn't you know so that was kind of like for all the the

messiness and the complications and the diff the difficulties and challenges of

where we are now it's like I didn't even think we'd be in this space you know 20

years ago I would have said that that's impossible so like you know while I value music IC education traditions and

conventions but like you have to adapt and to the challenges you know you have

to if you don't have the language you know if you can't write or read the

language that you're living in at least you can speak it you know and and it's going to sound different than anybody

else yeah who's speaking it potentially because of what you heard growing up

yeah and there's some beauty in that absolutely that that's that's gosh I mean diversity is is is beautiful

diversity is is our is is our survival as as as a species any species

survival yes yes um so so let's get specific the the last album you all put

out was that in 2017 when was that I think so yeah 2017 and so compare

writing that album to this first one from 97 with these same people yeah what was

it like to write music well we had to get together from different parts of the

country and even different parts of the world to do it this time whereas back then with the first stuff we were living

in the same house even yeah um so it was like play all day in our basement we

weren't going to school yes and um on our you know on our breaks like go go

tour as much as possible play 200 shows a year like all all that stuff and become that that kind of music family in

that sense now we have extended families we each have our own extended families so there there's a different you know we

were coming together to support each other and our extended families at that point so like that kind of maturity

meant that we I think we were like interested in sort of

like almost I don't want to well I haven't really thought about this very much like how to how to talk about it

but kind of assigning roles in a sense um like oh is this something you want to do do it you know like as as opposed to

like oh I have to have my finger in every pudding you know like um so I

think it you know collaborating with other people we all know there's a lot of compromise

involved um and it's like having three people cook one dish you know it's it's going

to be messy I'm laughing because there's five people in my

band right I know if you want to hear mine and

Caitlyn slots on Thanksgiving check out my patreon this is going to be part of a

bonus clip of our chat okay back to the interview what did that stretch of time

or I I think you guys officially broke up right it wasn't just like a break but you the band broke up and then years

later yeah wrote recorded and released another album and you've been kind of touring on and off since then what did

that stretch of time give you personally and

musically like what no that's the end of the that's the question that's an amazing

question thank you for that question thank you for giving me the opportunity to reflect on these times and my

creative life that yeah exactly that time gave me my children that time gave

me um the relationship I had then with their father um there wasn't enough

creativity for me during that time I did do solo records so that that was

precious as it was but I got to be the full-time parent which was something I

always wanted wanted to so um I learned so much and I'm so grateful to my

children and my family for what I was able to learn during that time um and

now as I reflect on it I I know how lucky I was to have all that time with them my family and my children and um

you know I missed I missed being in a band I did and I tried to do it here and there but it was really hard you know as

a full-time par to find the time for that um not that's not a complaint

that's that's just the reality of it you know you can't like you can have it all but at different times sort of thing you

know like having it all at once is is really challenging so yeah did you feel like when you came

back to writing you appro your approach was different because of that that time

without as much creativity yeah for sure I was way more organized way more

efficient and um also way more excited

you know to to get a chance to be with any you know because I did things with other musicians at the time um and so I

got to experience that you know like that Joy of their their generosity and

and and um experience and um I learned

you know I had to teach myself some music technology some recording in order to do my own things as well so that was

helpful but you know like fear is always this thing like that I want to look at

closely every time it pops up like oh hi fear like before I used to just let it

consume me or I used to inhabit it wholly and now I can see it as like only one part of me and say like what is this

fear really like what's it stopping me from doing like what's it trying to protect me from here so um cuz I I don't

think I've ever emphasized this enough but I was very shy I'm very sensitive

and very very shy so for me to actually be a front person or whatever that means you know with the microphone in front of

my face like it took so much effort and discipline to not want to run away and

throw up you know so so scary for me and still can be but now I know that I also

find it delightful right and it's Delight you know I'm I feel Delight full full of delight when I'm doing it so

that kind of counters the fear um when did you realize how much

Rainer Maria meant to people I think one clear moment

performing for me when I realized that R and Maria had an effect on people was we played what for us was a Big Show at the

time in New York City at a I think it was at balery ballroom and I looked the lights sort of swept up and I saw people

in the way St back just with like Joy on their face and I'm like oh my gosh they're engaged in this like something

is is resonating and that's always also what a word that's important to me and

what we're trying to do in my music classrooms is get on the same wavelength resonating so that the people who are

going very fast up here and the people who are slow down here we somehow slow

down the fast people speed up the slow people so that we're all on the same you

know rmic pattern wavelength whatever you want to call it so that that that definitely help that definitely was that

moment performing and then seeing like the huge amazing success of bands like

American football that were our cohorts at the time um seeing how they have taken some

of the essence or you know whatever we were sharing back then and you know they've

taken it to so many different stages around the world like I feel a part of that like you know those were my

colleagues my friends like we were in the same DIY spaces together like I feel

a part of that like happiness that it's that that so many people go to it

because I know what music means to me you know it's that s it's that saving thing Saving Grace that you can access

at any point in your life in any way that is accessible to

you so I feel I feel happy and lucky you

know that I get to keep doing it yeah I'm so glad you feel that way because I feel like random Maria was such a

staple everywhere I ever played in my band touring there was always a random

Maria poster you guys have just been there or you're gonna go there or you know like and it you just seemed like a

band that everyone knew about and wanted to see but you all were still accessible

like I felt like and tell me if I'm wrong but it felt like you were a band

that was like big to us in the scene but that we could still go see in a basement at any time oh yeah for sure why have we

never met like not I say never met but we have kind of met but you know why have we like how did that happen I mean

we we did I did was lucky to get to see you play in New York you did um at least

once or twice yeah right seriously war on women you saw I think I was with

Susie cuz you saw Pogo oh that makes a lot of sense okay so jawbreaker the jbre

yes that makes a lot of sense um so I was lucky um oh that's cool May because

maybe yeah maybe because I'm a little older or something maybe I think you know my band at the time uh maybe let's

see I was in a band called fair Verona in Nashville that toured but was you know not same Circle not really like

that and then a VC but that was like early 2000s and that was out of Baltimore and so we were playing the

same venues but not same bill kind of thing yes yes yeah yeah but like but you

were in my world because everyone had one of your shirts or a poster of you guys you know what I mean like like like

but yeah my the I think my the kind of music I played made us more adjacent and we wouldn't have been on the same build

necessarily unless it was a really cool show cuz my favorite shows were the ones that mixed everything up genre wise you

know same um do actually you know that's speaking of like do you feel like emo is

the right label for Raina Maria how do you consider yourselves well I would always qualify it as second wave emo so

like so yes I was a huge fugazi fan and

you know I knew that they they came where they had come from right of spring and but I really didn't know at the time

that we were being put into that until we already had been that category and

then when like the next waves of emo happened and I thought oh wow Emo's big

now that must mean like people will hear us no absolutely the

opposite and so you know clearly the the

this idea that sometimes happens that what what we call the pioneers of a

genre or whatever are often not the ones that have the most quote unquote Commercial Success yeah like that you

know that's part for the course like I always sought out the bands that were tiny you know did not you know

because they were doing something that wasn't appealing to everybody and why

why do I seek that out I don't know that's just who I am in in this go around so that's just what appeals to me

so I always was like you know the the on the alternative side of things or whatever yeah the micro instead of the

macro although I love huge things that appeal to people too I was just listening to sh this morning you know

sure yeah so yeah I wanted to ask you what this stolen land was written in response to at that time okay yeah um

you don't mind asking you don't have there's a whole but her lyrics episode on it if you want oh no way really okay

I got to find that one then okay yep you guessed it this will also

be part of that bonus clip I was talking about earlier head to the patreon listen to all of it there it's

all connected it's a very cool uh part of the interview that I just want to share with patrons so there you go what

are your favorite random Maria songs to play live now and is it different than

your favorites to play back in the day this whole the theme of this whole I

feel like is just like time right like hindsight and like it's just so fascinating to me um your like your your

run of you know having a bunch of albums breaking up for years coming back and

then even now there's been a lot of time since you reunited and you probably have

hindsight on that you know so it's just so interesting for sure for me for to think

about it is is is definitely interesting challenging um me I like to be

challenged um well I think when we open up our set or we did for instance at the

best friends forever fest with like three of the key songs to understanding

Ry Maria for me our artificial light okay um planetary and broken radio and

the way that those three fit together melodically and lyrically and

rhythmically just set me up for the whole rest of the set and it always has

I think in a way but we didn't come to it until a little bit later maybe putting those three together like that

but there's something about the little moments of when the drums have cut out and we're

just maybe hearing stick clicks um between songs for instance and I just hear guitar or guitar intro or when the

drums kick into you know like their Williams hidden other symbols or

whatever like he's going from the ride to the crash whatever that it just somehow it's the transport it transports

me so that's the other worldly sort of ethereal spiritual connection that I get

to it all um but only if those three are played in a row that's the magic spell magic

combination totally so back in the day the song at the very first shows the song that made the most

sense to me on stage was I love you too and one of the first times we played

it when we were quote unquote on the road I think we just went down to University of Illinois which was not so

far from Madison we were like in champ on tour we're on tour and we had a bunch of

our what I still call my colleagues now but um yeah we had a bunch of other bands that we knew around in the in the

crowd the whole set I felt really shaky and then I love you too we played it and

I saw the transformation people were like that's the song that's the song we get completely yeah you're singing that

song to me like here in the crowd and I I'm giving you a nod like yep that's the

song and so I could see it on their faces afterwards people came up afterwards to talk to us about that song

and I was like yeah I love you too that's really unusual as far as the way it's

constructed and came together very pure honest I don't mean pure as in like you

know but like purely us yeah okay kind of song like very for me as an

inexperienced musician I was like writing melodic baselines without really understanding how the base was part of

the Groove Machine at the time like because I like I said I'd never been trained that was the song I think back

then that one very much oh do you did you find back then that you were a band

that people needed to hear a specific song for it to click to understand what

your band was about was that consistent at a lot of shows or do you feel like right away people got what you were

about I've been in bands where they do not understand us right away and and

something needs to click and they go oh okay and then the rest of the set they're like ah I see I see I see yeah

well I think much like a conversation you could have from the stage you know

there's some bands that I love that are you know that the the tamber of the song

or whatever the like the the feeling of each song from song to song is linked so

so you know and it you know you know you sort of everything is sort of moving along

together right and so you either get at the you can jump on the understanding of it at some point or not but I think for

R Maria's songs because Ka and I as the lyricists were

coming from poetry classes coming from being students of poetry we sort of saw each

song as its own little poem in a sense so they could have very different flavors very different um things so I I

really understood that like not everybody's going to like that song I think a lot of people like this

song like I really but here's another one for you sure yeah like you don't have to like them all it's a book of

poetry you know you want to flip through to your favorites I get it like sort of tune out during during other ones but

there could be like the one line you know that that you might hook into um but yeah in a sense like that's

that's we didn't we didn't really separate we were mining our poems for our lyrics

so that's why that kind of worked I thought okay I have a fun question why

back then were we all spelling your

y r instead of y r why is that such a thing I did that all the time where did

we get that where dides that come from that is a really good question I

mean I think the first musician that I was aware of that was sort of

abbreviating things in like a text message sense was maybe Prince Right

like but he was extreme that's like very different I feel like we we weren't doing that right um but but yeah what

what I think he gave permission though I don't know like interesting right you know what I'm saying like well we don't

have to spell the whole name I I think I would ask Ka that question now I'm gonna ask Ka that question later and I'll send

you a little response because I know K will remember it probably again it's

like a poetic device probably maybe so maybe so all right you let me know and I'll put it at the end of the episode

outro before I stop recording is there anything that

you want wish I would have asked or anything you want to talk about that we

didn't no I mean I I'm always I always love talking about how to make music

accessible you know as an educator um and there are systems that people are

devising that and there systems that already exist um where you can for

instance put colored stickers on instruments to help neurod Divergent

music student you know students with neurod divergency or disability or except any kind of

exceptionality um so you know if you have if you're a parent or know parent

of or know somebody who you think could benefit from from from music study and

practice you know but you're worried that the the instruments aren't accessible or that music theory isn't

accessible like there there are systems out there and soft technology that's

available and as an educator I see that the students who maybe are the most

challenging in other classrooms for whatever reason for traditional public education come into the music room and

just kick ass and Thrive and voice is heard so um you know we need to create

more accessibility obviously we're not even close to to having full access but

it's it's starting so look to other places also other countries like uh Scotland and Finland have been oh uh

Pioneers in that field maybe I'll get you maybe you can uh email me a bunch of

uh different different stuff different resources different ideas places to go places to learn and I'll put that in the

show notes sounds good okay cool yeah well Kaitlyn tell people if there's any

resources or cool [ __ ] you want them to check out and then how can they find

you resources cool stuff I have so many resources now I'm so fortunate um if

you're in the New York City area check out Jam Just accessible music um my um

Mentor Dr Kim mord is the director of a it's a music school but it's um it's a

research center also so it's making music accessible to people of all ages and and abilities um you can be a child

or an adult and there there are music teachers there for you and music classes

and all kinds of things so it's in Queens um then there's also online SOS

sounds of saving which is a music and mental health nonprofit and I'm uh an

adviser or you know I help them with their educational content but it's um

creating resources and curriculum um to support young people's mental health with music

a little worried about funding for education and music education for the next four years well

more than a little worried because I can see you know as Nome Chomsky talks about like how do you destroy something well

you know you defund it so that people don't think it works anymore and then you privatize it so you know we're we're

definitely heading down that path and so I'm one of those people that believes there should be no private schools at

all maybe very few more like a Finland model where you know everyone is given free education at all points in their

life including higher degrees um and there is funding for it we just direct that misdirect that money

yeah so let's keep um talking obviously and organizing and protecting and

challenging I I would say keep listening to podcasts and other people who

are are you know having these conversations because you're because you're not because we're not alone we

have the power we do have the power collectively we just have to figure out how to access it we've that weak we've

they've weakened our muscle of of how to flex that that that muscle of solidarity

Union building that's a good way to put it yeah but it's there that muscle's there so let's start using it where can

people find you online um well r maria.com i mean we're not we have some

shows maybe coming up next year hint hint um and also uh Instagram I'm on

Instagram I'm I'm I'm I'm actually releasing a solo my next solo record in March oh that's awesome congrats thank

you cool I look forward to hearing that yeah on skeletal lightning hi skel to lightning love

you ka Linda morray thank you so much for joining me on but her lyrics you're

the best shna thank you oh and I got the name right at the end

yes

Keep listening to hear Rainer Maria’s song “Rain Yr Hand” in full. 

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thanks for listening and land back.

LYRICS: Rain Yr Hand  by Rainer Maria 

How important

All ages shows have been

To the identity formation for me

That night, you grasp and pull my wrist

You grasp my wrist and pull me past

Imagining what we will do alone

That night, a tree had fallen across the highway

Blocking our way home

Wet with rain, your hand on mine

A breath of hesitation

Your skin that night

You and i feel as if we

Can escape calamity

That night, you and i, seventeen

Make out